FEBRUARY FORUM MEETING

February Forum Meeting

February 11, 2009

Bountiful Library: 10:15

Guest Speaker/ Jeff Novak

Principle of Freedom: A Constitution Should be Structured to Permanently Protect the People from the Human Frailties of their Rulers

United Women's Forum Meeting 1-14-2009 Speakers: Representative Becky Edwards & Senator Dan Liljenquist

Minutes from the United Women's Forum
January 14, 2009

Welcome: Debra Poulsen
Prayer: Nancy Peterson
Pledge of Allegiance: Cecilee Price Huish
A Principle of Freedom: Diane Bachman
"To Protect Man's Rights, God has Revealed Principles of Divine Law"
Diane spoke of our rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness from the Declaration of Independence and how traditionally
these rights have been seen as sacred. Thus the importance of
protecting them. Down through the ages, history has proven that a
nation with higher morals enjoys more freedom. Maintaining a high
moral standard as a people plays an important role in protecting our
freedoms, but how can that be done? Freedoms can be lost when
government takes on more power over the people. An excellent
presentation on this subject was given by Dr. Robert George at Brigham
Young University on October 28. His topic was "The Moral Purposes of
Law and Government ." Diane stressed that our rights can be taken
away when government fails to protect them. Government derives their
power from the consent of the governed.

Laura Bunker of United Families Utah encouraged us to compare the
internet sites of united families.org and equalityutah.org. She gave
an excellent presentation entitled "When Gay Rights and Religious
Liberties Clash" and encouraged us to study the difference and become
educated in what is really at the heart of our differences, and what
is at stake if we do not let our voices be heard in protecting our
freedoms.
Dalane England rallied us to get involved and encouraged each of us to
spend at least a half a day a week at the State Legislative Session.
It only lasts for six weeks and our voices need to be heard. There is
a special training session on "How to be an Effective Lobbyist" with
guest speaker Gayle Ruzicka on Wednesday, January 21st at 10:00 am at
the Utah State Capital in Multi-Purpose Room Room #130. This is an
invitation to get involved and let our voices be heard. They will
train us and help us feel comfortable to do so.
Kris Kimball encouraged us to boycott all Pepsi Products as they are
supporting the Gay Rights agenda . We are doing this not to ask them
to oppose gay rights, but to stay neutral.


Special Guest: Becky Edwards, Utah House District 20
Rep. Edwards was happy to be with us and said that it was invigorating
to see people come together advocating things that they believe in.
She quoted Thomas Jefferson as saying, "Every difference of opinion,
does not necessarily mean a difference of principles."
As she has thought about all of the laws of society, she has found
that they actually fall under the two greatest laws given by Jesus
Christ when questioned by the Saducees and the Pharisees . These laws
were to love God and to love our fellow men. Any group or law that
infringes on these laws is doomed for failure.
She shared two stories with us that illustrate the importance of these
laws. The first was of a trip that she took with her parents and
family on the Trans Siberian Railroad. On this trip they crossed
through nine time zones as well as through Estonia, Russia and
Helsinki, Finland. She was amazed at what she saw as they crossed
this great span of country and governments. Estonia had only been
under communist reign for 50 years, and Russia, of course has been
under that reign for much longer. Helsinki, Finland has never been a
part of Communist Russia. The comparison of what they found in those
countries was amazing in the spirit of the people and the villages and
cities that they passed through. It demonstrated so vividly that
where there is an absence in the belief and love of God, there is a
stark difference in the spirit of hope and freedom and love in the
people.
The second story occurred with her parents who were serving a
humanitarian mission in Romania. The only directions they were given
as they arrived were to "Help the People". It soon became very
apparent of how greatly that was needed. What was a vivid reality was
of the great needs of the disabled. They were basically outlawed in
this country and had no rights. They were to stay unheard and unseen.
Through the great compassion and determination of the Price's they
were able to help this group of people. They even organized a
"Special Olympics" which is an almost impossible task, but with divine
intervention and the rallying of many good people this took place and
blessed the lives of countless people, including those of special
needs as well as the citizens of Romania that came to their aid in
volunteering. It was an excellent example of loving our fellow men
and becoming strong advocates wherever we are and however we can.
Special Guest: Dan Liljenquist, Utah Senate District 23
One of Sen. Liljenquist's favorite quotes is of Teddy Roosevelt, "Do
what you can with what you have, where you are."
He spoke of Divine Law and Neurosis in Government. Personal morality
is a foundation of freedom. In the book "The 5000 Year Leap" it
states that government built on personal morality cannot ignore the
consequences of the breakdown of these principles. Divine Law is
truth. It does not change for it is. Ralph Waldo Emerson said,
"Truth is the treasure of all men." In our government today, things
have become left verses right instead of right verses wrong.
In comparing divine law and neurosis in government Sen. Liljenquist
quoted Carl Young who said, "Neurosis is always a substitute of
legitimate suffering." M. Scott Peck in his book, "The Road Less
Traveled" said that there are four things that when not done send a
person into a neurosis. They are:
l. when someone can't delay immediate gratification
2. When one cannot accept responsibility for one's actions
3. when one cannot see reality for what it is
4. when one becomes unbalanced

We are experiencing a neurosis in our government and there are many
example of this from the economic downfall that we have just
experienced in the immediate self gratification of bailing ourselves
out of debt to our nation not seeing something for what it is in the
problems and solutions we are facing with our national healthcare.
We have become an unbalanced nation. Sen. Liljenquist sited the
example of the Governor of Illinois and his lack of private morality
that has become the norm among many of those governing and who have
governed in that state, as well as President Clinton and his private
actions while serving as President. There has become no clear line
between the private actions and the public actions of these men and
those like them. They have no private morality.
He quoted Winston Churchill who said, "Truth is incontrovertible.
Malice may attack and may deride it , but in the end there it is. "
Sen. Liljenquist said that it is imperative that we keep a dedication
to reality at all costs in government. Truth doesn't change from
election to election. We must keep neurosis out of government.

Thank you to the wonderful and motivating addresses of these two great
public leaders!

United Women's Forum Meeting 1-14-2009/ Senator Dan Liljenquist & Representative Rebecca P. Edwards

Next UWF Meeting January 14, 2009 10:15 a.m.

MESSAGE FROM DEBRA POULSEN

Here we are facing another year of adventure. We will be greeting a new President of the United States. We have new representatives to meet and work with at the State level. Some of our local leaders will be replaced this year and civic life will continue forward with or without our involvement. As the United Women's Forum has tried to fulfill our mission over the last two years we hope one message has come through loud and clear: You are needed!! Our voices are needed, our input is valuable and our efforts can make a big difference. Please come and join with us as we learn together and encourage one another in our civic responsibilities. We look forward to joining with you again as we greet this new year of 2009.

THIS WEEK'S NEWS: January Forum Meeting Wednesday - January 14^th - 10:15am - Bountiful Library

Special Guests

Dan Liljenquist

&

Becky Edwards

Our newly elected Senator and Representative

Principle of Discussion

To Protect Man's rights God has revealed certain principles of Divine Law

Looking Ahead:

Gayle Ruzika

Teaching Lobbying Skills

January 21^st at the State Capital

(more details to follow at our meeting)

Minutes: United Women's Forum Meeting December 10, 2008 (Dina & Richard Wells)

Minutes for United Women’s Forum

Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Welcome: Diane Prince

Prayer: Erin Perkins

Pledge of Allegiance: Joan Heslop

A Principle of Freedom: “The Role of the Creator” Shelly Davies Shelly spoke of being in post Gorbachev Russia waiting in a food line for bread and noticing the garbage that was scattered everywhere around the city of Moscow. A week later in St. Petersburg (formerly Leningrad) Olga (a 50+ tour guide) drove past a building that she referred to as The Museum of Atheism. When Shelly inquired what it was, the woman replied that it housed all of the things men had put there that denied their creator. As they spoke with Olga that day, it was evident that the country had become the way it was, because the people had denied their creator. As she studied about this principle, the following truths emerged for her:
If government exists to protect human beings, then we need to look to the creator of human beings for solutions.
· We are endowed with inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
What are the other gifts we have been endowed with by our creator?
1. Our nation 2. The Creator set aside this country as a land of freedom. 3. God is the great captain over the head of it and by his hand we have been preserved. 4. The Creator established or created all truth and principles that govern this land. 5. The Creator is the source of our strength.

Our responsibility as citizens is to be involved, active and have a voice. We must understand that our creator can heal our country’s ills – whatever He creates, He can fix. We must do our part in speaking out and standing up. Shelly suggested that we look up a wonderful talk entitled, “The Moral Purposes of Law and Government” that was given at a BYU Forum on October 28, 2008. by Princeton Professor, Robert P George.

Dalane England gave us a “Look Ahead” at the 2009 Legislative Session and encouraged each of us to take a day a week attending the session between Monday, January 26^th and Wednesday, March 12. Some of the proposed bills of interest are:

Wrongful death “Merry Christmas by retailers” Abortion – 5 bill

Ethics Healthcare Alcoholic Beverage Control Reform

Education – Performance based compensation for teachers Singapore Math

Real ID Immigration – requirements to work as an illegal immigrant

If you would like to volunteer to be involved in the 2009 Legislative process please contact Dalane. There will be a special meeting on January 21, 2009 at 10:00 am at the Utah State Capital on “How to be an Effective Lobbyist” with guest speaker Gayle Ruzicka.

Debra Poulsen introduced our guest speaker Mr. Richard Wells who is a man of great capacity and leadership abilities. He strives to live a life of happiness and works for the National Write Your Congressman Foundation and is currently pursuing his Masters in Political Economy.

Mr. Wells spoke of “The Role of the Creator in a Free Society”

He emphasized the importance of the separation of powers in our government, but also the importance of a vertical separation between State Government and the local community or families. He recommended reading the book, “Laddie” by Jean Stratton Porter concerning the impact of family on our communities. His main goal in the work that he is about is to encourage responsible citizens to get involved and use their right to preserve freedoms set forth by the Founding Fathers.

Mr. Wells has observed that people are clamoring for answers and solutions that the constitution already guarantees us. There is a lack of education in society about our rights. We are not teaching this principal to our youth.

In order to achieve order there must be balance between accountability and agency. Authority is what helps keep that balance. To much accountability creates a tyranny (rulers law). Too much agency creates an Anarchy (no law at all).

He suggested reading a book called, “Roots of American Order” by Russell Kirks, and suggests that there is little enjoyment in life if there is no order. Before we can know justice and freedom we must have order.

“All forms of government destroy themselves by carrying their basic principles to excess. The democracies become too free, in politics and economics, in morals, even in literature and art, until at last even the puppy dogs in our homes rise up on their hind legs and demand thier rights…disorder grows to such a point that a society will then abandon all its liberty to anyone who can restore order.” (Plato on Fate of Government)

Going back to a philosophical reasoning, Mr. Wells returned to Skousen in his book, “The 5000 Year Leap” who sums up Locke’s suppositions about God as follows:

“The Creator would also reflect a fine sense of right and wrong, and also a sense of indignation or even anger with those who violate the laws of ‘right’ action. In other words, God has a strong sense of ‘justice.’ Remorse for wrong also arouses a sense of compassion in the Creator, just as it does in human beings whom he designed. He goes on to say, “The American Founding Fathers agreed with Locke. They considered the existence of the Creator as the most fundamental premise underlying All self-evident truth…every single self-evident truth enunciated by the Founders is rooted in the presupposition of a divine Creator”. (pp.96-97)

Peggy Noonan, in her October 27, 2005 article for the Wall Street Journal attempts to discover why our elites today (or those who are in a position to lead) are not leading in “troubling times”. She wrote:

“Our elites, our educated and successful professionals, are the ones who are supposed to dig us out and lead us. I refer specifically to the elites of journalism and politics…the elites of our state capitals, the rich and accomplished and successful of Washington, and elsewhere. I have a nagging sense, and think I have accurately observed that many of these people have made a separate peace. That they’re living their lives and taking their pleasures and pursuing their agendas; that they’re going forward each day with the knowledge, which they hold more securely and with greater reason than non-elites, that the wheels are off the trolley and the trolley is off the tracks, and with a conviction, a certainty that there is nothing they can do about it. “

Contrast this attitude with that of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. They accompanied their signatures with the statement,

“And for the support of this declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.” These men were the “elite’s” of that time period. They all had more to lose by signing the declaration than they had to gain personally.

Of these men:

9 were wounded in war

5 captured or imprisoned

Several lost wives

17 lost every thing

12 had homes completely burned

Several lost wives/children

1 lost all thirteen children

All were subject to manhunts

These men were of the mind that they would hang together or they would hang separately. Not one of them went back on their word of what they pledged and signed to.

The solution to our ills is education. We must educate our youth. The constitution enables us to have peaceful repair . Mr. Wells admonished us to take a roll in getting this message out to a nation that is pleading for answers. If we can again instill in our youth this resolve and passion, then a new generation of leaders equal to our founders will be poised to return order that was once won at a priceless cost.

What a wonderful, inspiring and motivating forum! Thanks to all who contributed.

Soup and rolls were served at the conclusion of the forum.

United Women's Forum Meeting 12-10-2008 Speaker: Richard Wells

December 10, 2008 Meeting: "The Role of the Creator" Richard Wells

December 10, 2008 10:15 a.m. Bountiful City Library: Richard Wells graduated from BYU with a BS in Facilities Management and a minor in Business Management. He worked as a project manager and director of Facilities on several college campuses in New York, and Arizona. Over 3 years ago, he dramatically changed his career path because of his deep concern for the strength of our nation. He worried that his children would not enjoy the same freedoms and opportunities we have enjoyed as a country in the past as too many of us remain uninformed and uninvolved. He joined forces with a 50 year old legislative research firm called National Write Your Congressman. The firm specialized in empowering individuals with timely information and effective response systems to communicate effectively with State and Federal officials. The aim was to put power directly back into the hands of the people where it belongs. Richard is now a Division Manager for NWYC and is responsible for their efforts in multiple mountain west states. He is formerly a returned missionary for the LDS Church, is involved in the community as a State Delegate, coach for youth sports, past scoutmaster, and leadership in his church. He and his wife, Dina Wells are the parents of five children.

UWF Meeting 11-12-08 Colonel Jay C. Hess

Marge Clayton welcomed us all out to our forum meeting today and invited the new people to stand and introduce themselves. There were quite a few who were new and expressed their enthusiasm for coming to hear Colonel Hess speak of his experiences in the war. The prayer was offered by Heather Ross, and Marian Sellers lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Changing things up a bit we began our meeting with our forum business first.

...... Laura Bunker as the president of "United Families Utah" extended a warm welcome to all of us to come and spend time with them tomorrow for "A Day at the Capital". While there we would have the opportunity to meet with many of our legislators and share with them our concerns and desires to hold on to traditional family values. Those attending would receive the new "Family Issues Guide" put out by United Families International. They would also be taking a tour of the newly remodeled Capital and have lunch together for all those who had the time to stay. This would be a wonderful chance to get to know our legislators and establish a rapport with them.

......Adrienne Buckley our chairman over decency and pornography gave a very fine presentation on the importance of addressing the concerns of decency over our national airwaves. On Tuesday, November the 4th while we were all involved in the election, the US Supreme Court stepped back into the issue of profanity. The major Networks had challenged the rulings of the FCC to protect the airwaves from fleeting expletives. This is a very important issue and there are many leading conservatives who strongly support the standards of the FCC . She quoted Tim Winters the president of Parents TV Counsel. "The networks must take responsibility to protect the airwaves from harsh profanity and violence. It is unacceptable to continue current trends." She encouraged us to look at the Parents TV Counsel website and respond to the e-mails that come through. In this way we can do our part to uphold the standards of decency that are so needed in our society today.

.......Linda Hess gave us an update on Proposition 8. She said that although this important legislation was passed in California, many on the opposite side of this issue have already shown their disregard for the voice of the people by filing lawsuits to the courts asking that the new law be declared unconstitutional. She told us that thirty states now have Constitutional Amendments protecting the definition of marriage as "between a man and a woman." with the only two States that do not reflect this belief being Massachusetts and Connecticut. She encouraged us to stay tune to the many social issues that will now be attacked with our new President and a more liberal Congress. The concerns she mentioned were: the overturning of the laws regarding stem cell research, the challenging of DOMA laws, the introduction of the "Freedom of Choice Act" (which would have the effect of making an overturn of Roe VS Wade impossible,) and the re-introduction of The Fairness Doctrine, which would have a tremendous impact on conservative talk shows.

.....Cynthia Peterson the chairman over "Mom's for Kids Coalition" encouraged us to speak up and let our voices be heard concerning problems that are being encountered in the schools. Coming from other areas she has had an exposure to other school districts where better methods and ways of doing things have been implemented for the educating of the children. She says "many voices need to come together to help create the changes that are needed." She mentioned three areas of concern that she and her committee have isolated that will bring needed changes to our district.

I. We must support the teachers that teach but raise the bar. She mentioned how many of the IB teachers are also needed to perform duties for the sports program. It has been noted by her and many other mothers that often these teachers leave their teaching assignment to perform extra curricular activities and leave the classroom without a teacher. Of course, for them the priority is the students in the classroom, not the sports program. They feel a need for others to help speak out on this issue to see if they can have an impact in changing this situation.

II. The restructuring of the Spectrum Program ... and

III. Organizing Ability Groups

Her last comment was that "we must advocate for our children, we are their stewards."

...... Janet Seamons gave an excellent presentation on the topic of "The Advantages of a Republic." Going back into history she spoke of two notable personalities that helped pave the way for the American perspective of a Republic. One such figure was a man by the name of Algernon Sidney. In 1683 he was beheaded by King Charles II for saying that there is no divine right of kings to rule over the people. Sidney insisted that the right to rule is actually in the people and therefore no person can rightfully rule the people without their consent. His advocated the cause of freemen who think it for their convenience to join together , and to establish such laws and rules as they oblige themselves to observe.

Another prominent figure of the day was John Locke. He also believed that the power of governance should lie in the people He stated that society would best be served by recognizing the voice of the majority. He said, "there is no right of revolt in an individual, a group or a minority. Only in the majority.

She explained that a Republic is different than a Democracy. A true democracy would need the voice of all the people, whereas a Republic allows the voice of the people to be represented by a representative form of government. Our current misuse of the word Democracy as it refers to our "Republic", came about partially because of a movement that was set up in the early 1900's which was originally called the Intercollegiate Socialist Society, or ISS. One of it's members, Thomas Laidler explained that the ISS was set up to "throw light on the world-wide movement of industrial Democracy known as Socialism". The American people have come to think of themselves as a Democracy mainly because the word has been used interchangeably so much with Republic that there is a basic misunderstanding of it's true meaning. Madison said of our Republic, "We may define a republic to be... a government which derives all it’s powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people and is administered by persons holding their offices during (this people's ) pleasure for a limited period , or during good behavior. It is good that we have the opportunity to know the true meaning of a Republic and we can thank Janet for helping us in this matter. Great Job Janet!

...... Colonel Jay Hess gave a very special message on his time in Vietnam as a prisoner of war. He began his thoughts with thanking the people and town of Bountiful for being so good to his family while he was away. He was very grateful for the kindness and care that was shown to them. One of the good memories of the time as a prisoner of war was being in the company for two years of other soldiers who never used a swear word. He felt that was remarkable. He mentioned that his first experience in democracy came when he was at Brigham Young University. The football team had won a major playoff and because they had done so well they ganged up and insisted they be given a day off of school. He said they became unruly and somewhat like a Mob. He felt like it was an unsafe place to be.

He mentioned that he knew John McCain and actually came home with him. He pointed out that there was quite a difference in the way he was treated being the son of a farmer and the way John McCain was treated being the son of the commanding general of the US forces. He remembered when they came home that John McCain was limping and struggled to get on the airplane.

In thinking back on his time there he recalled that at least 300 Air Force pilots were shot down and lived through the experience of a plane crash as well as being captured; 150 Navy pilots and a few marines. A man by the name of Elbert Alvarez was held for 9 years. Another man by the name of Thompson was detained in South Vietnam for 10 years, but it was significant to note that a man by the name of John Downing was released the day before he was. He had been held hostage for 20 years in Korea. He was a CIA agent.

After spending 2 months of torture and time in solitary confinement, he was put in a cell with 3 Air Force pilots and 2 Naval pilots. (I think they were the ones he mentioned that didn't swear?) For the first little while it was like a Slumber Party and they would stay up and talk all night to each other.

After some time he was moved to another cell. He was with a Navy pilot named Mike who had been hurt very badly when he was captured. He had broken one leg, and knock the knee cay off of the other. They had to learn ways to communicate other than speaking. For this reason they made up hand signals and tapping sounds that would represent letters of the alphabet. They would have little couplets that would help them such as HH for "Happy Hour" or CC for "Church Call" . He said that one good thing that he did was have perfect church attendance while there and they always observed to do the Pledge of Allegiance. Sometimes the inmates would create poetry and tap it to each other. One such poem is listed below. He said that these thoughts really helped the inmates to keep their moral up and to feel the love for their country.

We dream that we'll return some day

to that land we cherish true

And when we reach that golden shore

we'll start our lives anew.

We long to be in America

to resume a happy life

away from the misery of war

the separation and the strife.

To walk again in healthy air

in a real democracy

away from this evil social form

with its lies and hypocracy.

Back where there is truth and dignity

where a man can stand to tall

back in my America

The greatest land of all.

Yes we close our eyes and listen

to that sound across the sea

It's the sound of freedom ringing

in the land of liberty.

Wearing their pajamas they would stand up and say the Lord's Prayer.

they would often go for 2 months not combing their hair and 4 months without brushing their teeth.

Colonel Hess spoke of how the Vietnamese would use them to propagandize the War. Once they came in with an article from back home written by a woman in Michigan who's son had enlisted and was now in Vietnam. Her comments were hostile towards the War and wanted her son back home. They brought the article in and asked them to write what they thought about it. They wanted to do anything they could to help with the anti war effort. He said that he was about to write something like in America we each have the right to think or say what we feel, when his inmate Mike told him to put on the sheet "no comments." He followed as well as everyone else. The guard came in and picked up the papers. They all thought they had done just great when in just a bit they came in with machine guns and said "hands over your head." So they put their hands over their head. When the guard left they took them down. In just a few minutes they came in again and with the machine guns pointing right on them they said, "hands over your head for 2 weeks." He said it was simple but very effective torture.

When they returned home they were taken blindfolded to another camp. They didn't know where they were going, but they were treated with roughness, pushed around and shoved around, people were throwing up, there was nauseating gas smells etc. Then after awhile they began to notice that they were being treated differently. People were opening the door for them and talking nicely. They knew something was different and then began to realize that they were being released. They were so grateful to be out of Vietnam

When he left Utah his son was in 6th Grade and when he got back he was graduating from High School. When they got off the plane they were asked to comment to a reporter of their experience. Jeremiah Dalton spoke for the group and said, "it has been an honor to serve this country under difficult circumstances in difficult times. God bless America." He said that once when he was walking down main street in Bountiful he noticed the inscription on a flag by the tabernacle, ... the law, government... liberty... the way." The words touched him and the tears kept coming. He felt it such a blessing to be an American. His last comment was from a woman who had written a book which included many stories from the POW's. She said, " Freedom is ... for those willing to defend it."

We were all very blessed to be there and to feel the spirit of this wonderful man who gave so much to our Country. Celestia brought soup for all of us and Janet had some rolls. We all enjoyed time chatting and expressing our thanks to Colonel Hess for his remarks and for his sacrifice. It was a wonderful forum.

United Women's Forum Meeting 11-12-08 Colonel Jay C. Hess

Pumpkin & Ham Soup

1 medium onion
2 Tablespoons of butter or margarine
2 (14.5 ounce) cans of chicken broth
2 cups of sliced peeled potatoes
1 Large can of cooked pumpkin
2 cups milk (I used canned milk)
1/2 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon pepper
*I added ham to the soup and eliminated the garnish
1 cup sour cream
2 tablespoon chopped fresh parsley
3 bacon strips, cooked and crumbled
In a large saucepan, saute onion in butter until tender. Add the broth, potatoes and pumpkin; cook until the potatoes are tender, about 15 minutes. Remove from heat and cool. Puree the half of the mixture at a time in a blender or food processor until smooth; return all to the pan. Add the mild, nutmeg, salt and pepper; heat through. Meanwhile, combine the sour cream and parsley. Spoon soup into bowls; top each with a dollop of sour cream and sprinkle with bacon.